Dr. Steven Jonas

archived: 14 - 20 Oct, 2007         Back                 Next

UPDATED: OCT 17, 2007

“WHY TORTURE?”

The US government use of torture is in the news once again, and as long as BushCheney are in power it will be, off and on.  For they have made its use into US government policy.  Of course, they describe whatever it is that is being done as “not torture.”   They then go on to say that a) “we can’t give you any details because: a) it’s classified and b) anyone who spills the beans will be “aiding and abetting terrorism and terrorists” (as if such persons didn’t already know from first-hand experience with Georgite torture at the hands of either US torturers or those of allies such as Egypt). This is done, and was done in a picture-perfect version by the White House Press Secretary in response to the revelations of the current secret program of torture carried out after Bush said “we-don’t-torture,” because that’s what they want to have the discussion on: “what’s torture?” 

They won’t reveal those secret Dept. of Justice memos (or at least hadn’t as of this writing) because, again, they’re classified and release would aid and abet and so on and so forth.  So since the Regime won’t give us (much less the Congressional Intelligence and Armed Services Committees) the details, let us decide for ourselves and let’s find out what has been going on from a former torturer himself.  According to Tim Shipman of the Sydney Morning Herald (that’s Sydney, Australia, folks; you wouldn’t expect to see an article like this one [see the link at the end of this column] in a US newspaper):  

A former US Army torturer has described the traumatic effects of American interrogation techniques in Iraq - on their victims and on the perpetrators themselves. Tony Lagouranis said he conducted mock executions, forced men and boys into agonizing stress positions, kept suspects awake for weeks on end, used dogs to terrify prisoners and subjected others to hypothermia. . . . Between January 2004 and January 2005, first at Abu Ghraib prison and then in Mosul, in northern Babil province, [Mr. Lagouranis] tortured suspects, most of whom he said were innocent. He realized he had entered a moral dungeon when he found himself reading a Holocaust memoir, hoping to pick up torture tips from the Nazis. . . . [He] said he never beat a prisoner. . . .  [But, he said] ‘these coercive techniques - isolation, dogs, sleep deprivation, stress positions, hypothermia - crossed a legal line because they violated the Geneva Conventions.’ “He has written a book about his experiences entitled Fear up Harsh.  The quoted article appeared originally in the British right-wing newspaper, The Telegraph

So we know that torture has been systematically carried out by US personnel in and out of the military, and the US has sent prisoners to be tortured in third countries.  We know that the Vice-President thinks that water-boarding is just a grand idea, but we also know that his regime denies that that is torture and wants very much to keep the discussion on the question of whether it is or isn’t.  And so do most of the stories about torture, a few of which are cited at the end of this column.  Actually it doesn’t much matter whether the Regime would ever agree that what they have officially authorized, first through the Yoo memos and more recently through the secret Justice Department legal memoranda recently leaked to the New York Times, is torture or not.  Unless I miss my guess, those persons who have been subjected to these techniques would describe it as torture.  At least one person who administered the methods of “interrogation” describes it as torture, and he is not likely to be unique among those administrators.  Many people in this country other than dyed-in-the-wool Georgites and Islamophobes would describe it as torture and so would, and do, most other people around the world.  Thus regardless of what the Georgites say about it, in the public perception they have instituted torture as official US policy, and in this case, perception determines reality.

So the principal question must become “why?”  Why does the BushCheney Regime use torture as a primary instrument for dealing with captives?  Few observers in this country are asking this question, because most of them have allowed themselves to get caught up in the idiotic, BushCheney-sponsored “debate:” “yes, it is, no it isn’t” and so on and so forth.  Even if the Justice Department’s apparently tortured (if I may use that term) legal reasoning were to prove that it somehow isn’t, legalistically, in addition to the fact that most people think it is, it is described by the Regime itself as “enhanced” methods.  After all, we are talking about water boarding, extreme isolation, piercing sound, extreme cold, fake suffocations, prolonged confinement in rigid positions, and etc.  So even though this Regime would give us an argument, let’s for the sake of argument and brevity call it “torture.” 

Before we can answer the question “why?” we can quickly dispose of what torture is not good for, based on the references from The New Yorker below.  According to many experts in the field, it is not good for gathering intelligence from military captives.  For the most part, tortured subjects just give their torturers what they want to hear.  Experts have testified over and over again that sophisticated, non-torture psychological techniques that were developed in the last century by both US and Soviet intelligence agencies are much more effective than torture in gaining useful information from military and paramilitary personnel.  It is not useful in the “ticking bomb” scenario either.  Any asset highly enough placed in an operation to know the details in enough detail to help any captors stop the operation just before it is about to take place will a) know that they are going to be killed anyway, and b) will be totally dedicated to achieving its desired outcome. 

But, as the Gestapo, the Iranian Savak under that great US ally the Shah, the NKVD, the Japanese fascist era Kempeitai, the Argentine Generals, the Pinochet Regime, and the Spanish Francoists have proved over and over again, torture does have its uses and they are manifold.  First and foremost, it is a major instrument of terror against one’s own population: it is a really good repressor of dissent.  A principal tool of Gestapo control in Nazi Germany was to pick up someone who had been making mildly anti-Hitler remarks, give them a good session or two of torture and then send them back to the neighborhood.  You can bet the neighbors got the message.   

Second, it is indeed very useful in extracting information from politically active civilian regime opponents who have no military training or training in resisting torture, such as the civilian opponents of the Pinochet Regime and the civilian targets of the Argentine “Dirty War.”  Third, it is a very good tool for extra-judicial punishment, just as long as the regime using it makes sure that its details leak out, in a totally deniable way of course to its own citizens.  Do you think that Argentineans didn’t know that their leftist loved ones were being tortured well before they were dropped out airplanes into the South Atlantic, without a parachute?  Fourth, it is a very useful tool for repression in militarily occupied territories.  Just ask the Kempeitai that operated in Korea and Occupied China about that one.  Fifth, it is very helpful when a regime is out to change the culture of its country, and to wipe out historical memory of anything that went before it came to power.  Doing so was perhaps the principal long-term goal of the Spanish Francoists, once they had restored corporate-clerical control of the country. Torture was one of their stocks-in-trade.  Sixth, it is really good at extracting false confessions, then to be used in show trials, such as those of the Soviet Union of the late 1930s that killed off so many of the good Communists who were already challenging Stalinism as the way not to try to build socialism.  

Sixth, in countries which use it but claim they do not, it helps to establish a record of lawlessness, of total disregard for the rule of law, as long as the Regime says things like, “We are doing what we are doing in order to keep our people safe and fight terror,” and so on and so forth.  For this one we need look no farther than our own doorstep.  The current US regime is obviously out to change the culture here.  “Torture [except of course we don’t call it torture, just ‘enhanced interrogation’] is OK, that is as long as we are doing the Deciding as to who gets it.”  No rule of law, no adherence to international treaties or our Constitution for which they are a part, and etc., just as long as the Regime says “we’re doing to live up to our responsibilities to keep the American people ‘safe from terrorism,” why it’s OK.  But of course to have a useful instrument of national policy, we have to have torturers.  Which is another reason for the BushCheney torture program.  Until they came to power, Americans didn’t do such things, officially at least.  So there weren’t very many, if any, trained torturers amongst our armed and intelligence forces.  But now they are being trained, apparently by the carload.  And if the Georgites stay in power, they will be needing more of them.  Further, BushCheney seem to be converting the CIA from an intelligence gathering agency (after all, it so often produces intelligence that they the Georgites just don’t want to hear) to a torture agency which, given how little attention the Georgites pay to the law, could be useful at home as well as abroad.   

Finally, for BushCheney, the whole institution, its use, and the whole “we-don’t-have-to-tell-either-the-Congress-or-the-Courts-or-the-American-people-any-of-the-details-just-as-long-as-we-say-we-are-using-it-in-the-war-on-flanking-maneuvers-[I mean terrorism]” tactic just strengthens their “Unitary Executive/F__k Congress” (otherwise known as fascist) approach to governance and governing.  

So, don’t tell me torture isn’t useful.  It’s just not useful for what the torturers tell us it’s useful for. 

Sources for this Column include (not in order of citation or use): Shane, S. and Mazzeti, M., “Advisers Fault Harsh Methods in Interrogation, “ New York Times, 5/30/07; FEMA Concentration Camps: Locations and Executive Orders, 9/4/04, http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_concentration_camps, http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm; Yoo, J, “How the Presidency Regained Its Balance,” New York Times, 9/17/06; ”AP Gets Shocking New Report on Gitmo,”  11/17/06; Mayer, J., “Whatever it Takes,” The New Yorker, 2/19-26/07; Mayer, J., “The Black Sites,” The New Yorker, 2/19-26/07; McKelvey, “We Were Torturing People for No Reason,” International Herald Tribune, 3/28/07; “Power Grab,” The Progress Report, 6/26/07 (on Cheney and Torture); Hersh, S. M., “The General’s Report,” The New Yorker, 6/26/07; Shipman, T., “We got it wrong, says former torturer,” Sidney Morning Herald, 6/11/07, http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/we-got-it-wrong-says-former-torturer/2007/06/10/1181414139791.html; Gellman, B. and Becker, J. “Pushing the Envelope on Presidential Power,” Washington Post, 6/25/07; Shane, S., Johnston, D., and Risen, J., “Secret U.S. Endorsement of Severe Interrogations,” New York Times, 10/4/07; Johnston, D., and Shane, S.,, “Debate Erupts on Techniques Used by C.I.A.,” New York Times, 10/5/07.

________________  

Steven Jonas, MD, MPH, is a Professor of Preventive Medicine at Stony Brook University (NY).

He can be reached at steven.jonas@stonybrook.edu, sjtpj@aol.com, and 631.444.2147.

Dr. Jonas is a Contributing Author for the webmagazine The Political Junkies.net (www.thepoliticaljunkies.net); a Columnist for the webmagazine BuzzFlash (http://www.buzzflash.com); a Contributing Editor for the weblog http://www.planetarymovement.org/; a Contributing Columnist for the Project for the Old American Century, POAC (http://www.oldamericancentury.org/); an invited contributor to the weblog Thomas Paine's Corner, now published on Cyrano’s Journal (http://www.bestcyrano.org/THOMASPAINE/); and an invited contributor to the weblog The Daily Scare (http://www.dailyscare.com/).  He also has his own weblog, “Dr. J.’s Short Shots, II” (http://drjsshortshots.wordpress.com/).

He is the author of The New Americanism (1992), available at www.amazon.com.  In this book, Dr. Jonas presents his proposal for that “new vision and mission” for the Democratic Party that so many, for so many years, have been urging it to find.  He finds them, needed with increasing urgency as the Georgites drive our nation towards frank theocratic fascism with increasing speed and determination, in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.  He is also the author of The 15% Solution: A Political History of American Fascism, 2001-2022.  Under the pseudonym "Jonathan Westminster" this book was originally published in 1996.  It was republished with a New Introduction in 2004.  Under Georgite rule, the “fictional non-fiction” scenario of this work of “future history” is, most unfortunately, becoming all too real.  The 2004 edition is available at www.barnesandnoble.com (search with the book title) and www.xlibris.com (click on “Bookstore,” then “Search” with the title).  Both versions are available at www.amazon.com (go to "Books;" search with the title).

2007
Oct 10, 2007  “Letter From Germany”
Oct  3, 2007   “Understanding Ann Coulter”

Sep 27, 2007
“The Great Republican Comedy Hours”

Aug 29, 2007
"The Permanent Republican Presidency, Part 3:
                     What The Democrats Can Do To Ensure That It Happens”

Aug 22, 2007
“The Permanent Republican Presidency, Part 2:
                     How They Will Achieve It” 

Aug 16, 2007
“The Permanent Republican Presidency, Part 1: What It Is”
Aug 9, 2007
  “Deranged Or Delusional, Not”
Aug 1, 2007
  “Iraq Exit Strategy Revisited: A New Idea”

Jul 24, 2007  
“The Most Successful American President:
                     George W. Bush, Part 4:  What Do The Democrats Do Now?” 

Jul 17, 2007 
 “The Most Successful American President: George W. Bush, Part 3”
Jul 11, 2007  
“The Most Successful American President:
                     George W. Bush, Part 2: The Constitution”  
 
     

June 27, 2007
“The Most Successful American President: George W. Bush, Part 1”
June 20, 2007
“Doing The Lieberman Jig”
June 13, 2007
Bush Retrospective, IV: George Bush's America”
June 6, 2007 
 “Fatal Addiction”

May 30, 2007
“The Alberto Gonzales Story, Part 2”
May 23, 2007
“The Alberto Gonzales Story, Part 1”
May 16, 2007
“The Politics Of Fear, Part 2:
                      The Democrats Must Go On The Attack; The Democrats Must Go On The Attack???”

May 9, 2007 
"The Politics Of Fear, Part 1: On Rudy Giuliani”
May 2, 2007 
“On The Imus Controversy, Part 2”

April 25, 2007 "
On The Imus Controversy, Part 1” 
April 19, 2007
“‘The Redirection’ By Seymour Hersh, Revisited”
April 11, 2007
“Global Weirding”

Mar 29, 2007 
“The Ideal Republican Presidential Candidate”
Mar 21, 2007 
“The CheneyBush War Policy: Connecting The Dots”
Mar 14, 2007  
“Bush Retrospective, III: On Fascism ---- And The Georgites”
Mar 7, 2007   
“Lessons For The US Fascists From The Nazi German Experience, Part 2"

Feb 27, 2007   “Lessons For The US Fascists From The Nazi German Experience, Part 1”
Feb 21, 2007   
“Less Partisanship? No.  More.”
Feb 14, 2007  
“The Iran War: The Top Ten Questions And Talking With God” 
Feb 7,2007      “On George Bush And Religion, II, Redux”

Jan 31, 2007     “The Iraq War And The One In Spain:
                                      Similarities That Are Ignored At Our Peril”

Jan 17, 2007    
“On George Bush And Religion I, Redux, Part 2”
Jan 11, 2007    
“On George Bush And Religion I, Redux, Part 1”
Jan 4, 2007      "The 'I' Word"

2006
Dec 14, 2006   
“Exiting IRAQ, The Georgite Way, Revisited”

Nov 30, 2006     
“‘Are The Democrats Going To Blow It?’
                        That All Depends Upon what The 'IT' Is
 

Nov 16, 2006     "On Republican IRAQ Policy And Why No Grand Theft Election
                        (They're Related)

Nov 12, 2006     
"Democratic Ideas: Post-Election 2006”
Nov 2, 2006       
“The US Enabling Act, 2006, Part II: Why Bush Wanted It”

Oct 26, 2006       "The US Enabling Act, 2006, Part I: What It Is And Some Comparative History”
Oct 12,2006        "
Democratic Ideas, XIV: Attack On Defense Revisited”
Oct 5, 2006       
“Iran Nukes, Revisited" (Expanded Edition)

Sept 28, 2006     "Democratic Ideas, XIII: Controlling The Agenda”
Sept 21, 2006      Reran article dated October 14, 2004
“GEORGE BUSH’S AMERICA”
Sept 14, 2006    
"Democratic Ideas, XII: Focusing On The Constitution"
Sept 7, 2006      
"Let's Hear It For Strict Constructionism,” V. 3, Part 3"

Aug 16, 2006      "Let's Hear It For Strict Constructionism, V. 3, Part 2"
Aug 10, 2006      The Dick Durbin Disaster - reran
Aug 3, 2006     
  Democratic Ideas, IX:, "Let's Hear It For Strict Construction (V. 3), Part 1" 

Jul 27, 2006        “What's It All About, Alfie?”
Jul 19, 2006        
"Democratic Ideas, VIII: Let's Play Capture The Flag"
Jul 13, 2006        
"Ann Coulter: The New Face Of The Republican Party"
Jul 6,2006          
"Ideas For Democrats, VII: Bipartisanship On Iraq"

Jun 29, 2006       "Ideas For Democrats, VI: Attack On Defense, II”
Jun 22, 2006       "Ideas For Democrats, V: Attack On Defense"
 
Jun 15, 2006      
"Ideas For Democrats, IV: The Ten Commitments, Re-visited”
Jun 8, 2006        
"Ideas For Democrats, III: Dealing The DLC”
Jun 1, 2006        
"Ideas For Democrats, II: Why Don't The Democrats?” 

May 25, 2006      
"Ideas For Democrats, I: The Vision”
May 18, 2006     
 "On Conspiracy Theories"
May 11, 2006      
"The Significance Of The Tony Snow Job”*
May 3, 2006        
"Bush Is Not Hitler, II"

April 25, 2006      
"Bush Is Not Hitler, I”
April 20, 2006       "
Some Thoughts On The 'Immigration Problem'"
April 13, 2006      
“The Georgite State Of The Union Address Revited"
April 6, 2006         "A Firebell In The Night:  The So-Called 'Gay Marriage' Amendment, II"
April 2, 2006        
"A Fireball In The Night:                        
                            The So-Called ‘Gay Marriage’ Amendment, I


Feb 22, 2006        
“The German Reichstag Fire of 1933 and 9/11: Some Comparisons. A Revisit,
                              Part II” 

Feb 16, 2006        
“The German Reichstag Fire Of 1933 And 9/11: Some
                            Comparisons.  A Revisit, Part1"
 

Feb 9, 2006           "
A Comment On The Democratic Alchemy,’
    
                        Appearing In The American Prospect”         

Feb 2, 2006          
"Vengeance Is Mine, Saith The LORD"

Jan 26, 2006          "George Bush And The Doctrine Of Original Intent"       
Jan 19, 2006         
"Let's Hear It For Original Intent (Version 2)"
Jan 12, 2006         
"A Quick Visit To Mexico"
Jan 5, 2006            
"Why The Patriot Act, Redux: Fascism In The Here And Now, Cont." 

2005
Dec 22, 2005          "Why The Patriot Act, Redux: Fascism In The Here And Now"
Dec 15, 2005         
"An Iraq Exit Proposal"
Dec 10, 2005         
“Exiting Iraq, The Georgite Way"
Dec 1, 2005            "
The Future Of The Democratic Party, VIII:
                              A Politically Viable Progressive Position On The War"
 

Nov 25, 2005            “The Future Of The Democratic Party, VII: ‘The Ten Commitments’”
Nov 17, 2005            "
The Future Of The Democratic Party, VI: An Organizing Proposal For Progressives” 
Nov 10, 2005           
“The Future Of The Democratic Party, V:
                               There Is No Middle Ground"

Nov 3, 2005             
“On The (Possible) Indictments.”

Oct 27, 2005            “The Future of the Democratic Party, IV:
                                Bush, Bennett, Miers, and the DLC.” 

Oct 20, 2005           
“The Future Of The Democratic Party, III:
                                First Thoughts On Dealing With The DLC.”

Oct 13, 2005           
“The Future Of The Democratic Party, II: On The Republicans” 
Oct 6,  2005            
“The Future Of The Democratic Party, I”

Sept 29, 2005          "The Bush Flood, And The Georgites: New Orleans, III"
Sept 22, 2005         
"On The Great New Orleans Flood Of 2005, II"
Sept 15, 2005
          "On The Great New Orleans Bush Flood Of 2005, I"

Sept 8, 2005           
"Let's Hear It For Original Intent"
Sept 1, 2005           
"An Iraq Solution"

Aug 25,2005             "Some Thoughts On The Atomic Bombing Of Japan"
Aug 18, 2005           
"Why God Sent Us George W. Bush" 
Aug 12, 2005           
"John Bolton And The Nuclear Option II"
Aug 5, 2005             
"The Significance Of The Karl Rove Speech"

July 28, 2005             “Iran Nukes, Revisited"
                                 (Expanded Edition)

July 21, 2005            
“Iran Nukes, Revisited"
July 14, 2005            
"The Dick Durbin Disaster" A Follow Up
July 7, 2005               "
The Dick Durban Disaster"

June 23, 2005            "Why All Of This Repression Abroad?"
June 16, 2005          
 Not Very Intelligent Design"
June 8,2005              "Pat Buchanan's "What If, "III?"
June 2, 2005             "
Pat Buchanan's 'What If,' II?"

May 26, 2005            "Pat Buchanan's 'What If?'"
May 18, 2005            "
The Schiavo Case, V: The Attack On Science" 
May 12, 2005           
“Possible Explanations For Bush-Behavior On And Around 9/11"
May 5, 2005              "Bill Frist's Declaration Of War"

April 28, 2005            "The Schiavo Case, IV: The Definitions Of Life And Death"
April 24, 2005            "The Schiavo Case, III: Further Legal Considerations And Their Political Implications"
April 14, 2005           
“The Schiavo Case, II: William Bennett And The Beginning Of The End Of The Separation Of Powers"
April 7, 2005
              "The Schiavo Case And The Locus Of The 'Police Power'"

March 31, 2005           “John Bolton And The Nuclear Option"
March 22, 2005            Of "Moolahs," Putin and Bush
March 17, 2005           
Georgite "Freedom And Democracy"
March 10, 2005            "We Won't Have To Worry Any More"
March  3, 2005             "Iranian Nukes"

February 24, 2005        "Going Nuclear In Iran"
February 16, 2005       
“The Georgite Social Security Scam: Bases For Suspicion”
February 10, 2005        “The Georgite Version of ‘Freedom and Democracy’ ”

                                   “The Coming 2nd Civil War (Unless),” No. 6

Feb 3, 2005                  “WMD Discovered --- In Washington”

Jan 27, 2005                 “Comparing George W. Bush And Adolf Hitler”
Jan 18, 2005
                 “The Bush Second Inaugural: A Preview” “The Coming 2nd Civil War
                                    (Unless),” No. 5 

Jan 13, 2005
                 “The Georgite Concept of Constitutionalism and the Rule of Law”
Jan 6, 2005
                   “The ‘Unless’ Of The ‘Coming Second Civil War’ Series; Part II”  

2004
Dec 30, 2004
                 “The ‘Unless’ of the ‘Coming Second Civil War’ Series, Part I” 
Dec 23, 2004
                 “The Real Meaning Of The ‘Faith-Based Presidency;’ Part II”
Dec 15, 2004
                 “The Coming Second Civil War (Unless)” 
Dec 9, 2004
                   “The Real Meaning Of The ‘Faith-Based Presidency’ ”      

Oct 28, 2004                 Why The Patriot Act?”
Oct. 21, 2004
                “The Cheneys’ Daughter Flap”
Oct 14, 2004
                 “George Bush’s America” 
Oct 7, 2004
                   “The Debate” 

Sept 30, 2004                “Four 800 Lb. Gorillas In The Campaign Room” 
Sept 23, 2004               "Fixing The Kerry Campaign, 9/15/2004"
Sept 16, 2004               "Lessons From Japan.  Part II: Successful Occupations"
Sept 9, 2004                 "Thoughts On the Third Anniversary of the Tragedy of 9/11/2001"
Sept 2, 2004                 "Lessons From Japan, Part 1"

August 26,2004             “Dealing with the Republican National Convention and Related
                                     Issues”

August 18, 2004            "The Best Of Dr. Jonas"
August 12, 2004             “Some Thoughts For and About The Kerry Campaign, VI”
August 5,2004                “Some Thoughts For and About The Kerry Campaign, V”

July 29, 2004                “Some Thoughts For and About The Kerry Campaign, IV”
July 22, 2004                “Some Thoughts For and About The Kerry Campaign III”              
July 15, 2004                “Some Thoughts For And About The Kerry Campaign II”
July 7, 2004                  “Some Thoughts For And About The Kerry Campaign,I”
July 1, 2004                  “Counsel To The President”
June 24, 2004               “ ’You Know me Al:’ On the German Reichstag Fire of Feb. 27, 1933
                                     and the 9/11/01 Bombing of the World Trade Center, Part II”

June 17, 2004               “ ‘The Ralph Nader Problem’ --- A Re-run plus”
June 10, 2004               “Ronald Reagan’s Legacy”
June 3, 2004                 “’You Know Me Al:’ On The Reichstag Fire Of Feb. 27, 1933 And The
                                      9/11/01 Bombing Of The World Trade Center, Part I”

May 27, 2004                “On Fascism -- And The Georgites”
May 20, 2004                “On John Ashcroft -- And Jefferson Davis”
May 13, 2004                “Karl Rove’s Personal Political Notebook”
May 6, 2004                  “Possible Explanations For Bush Behavior And 9/11” 

April 29, 2004               “On George Bush and Religion, Part 2
April 22, 2004               “What Condi Rice Might Have Said”
April 8, 2004                 “On George Bush And Religion”
April 1, 2004                 “Some Political Thoughts For Senator Kerry”  

March 25, 2004              “Brief Essays”
March 16, 2004             “You Know Me Al: The Iraq War --- So What Was It About, Anyway?
March 11, 2004             “A Word (Or Two) On Ralph Nader”
March 4, 2004               “A Firebell In The Night” 

February 27, 2004        “On Doctor Dean”


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